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Whole squid on tandem hook rig for fluke

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  Discussion Boards > Inshore Tackle and Techniques with Lep
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funcatching

Joined: 08/26/2003
Posts: 681
 posted 05/16/2006 01:41 PM  

Saw people talked about using whole squid on tandem hook rig to target bigger fluke. I would like to know how to hook a whole squid on a tandem hook rig, i.e., where should the squid's head/tentacle(eye side) be? the end hook? and should the hook go through just the eye/head part? or the body too? This is because the eye/head part easily comes off when drifting along the bottom, resulting the hook being no longer attached to the squid's body.

Next question, how does the fluke bite a whole squid, in general? Does it bite the squid's head side or the other side?


This post edited by Leprechaun 08:19 PM 09/20/2013
 
funcatching

Joined: 08/26/2003
Posts: 681
 posted 05/16/2006 02:52 PM  

Ok, just learn a bit more on squid over the Internet. The head side is called mantle collar and the other end (with fins) is called funnel. Anyone like to chime in?
 
Parker On My Face

Joined: 08/22/2001
Posts: 384
Location: Westhampton
 posted 05/16/2006 04:37 PM  

Funnel and eyes.............

I put top hook through funnel and end hook through the eyes, fluke will take from the mantle collar.


POMF

"I'M GOIN' NUCKIN FUTS"
 
MakoMike
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Joined: 12/28/2000
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Location: Pt. Judith
 posted 05/16/2006 04:43 PM  

Squid naturally swim with their tentacles at the rear, so I fish them so that the pulling hook is at the funnel and a second hook in the head.



====MakoMike=====

Click here for The Makomania Sportfishing website

Makomania out
 
funcatching

Joined: 08/26/2003
Posts: 681
 posted 05/16/2006 09:20 PM  

Next question, what would you do if the head got bit off? Did you just put the end hook in the mantle collar or switch to a new squid? I found that if the bite is still on, the fluke will bite a headless squid, so I just re-do the end hook and drop it right back.
 
Leprechaun
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Location: Wantagh/Seaford, N.Y.
 posted 05/17/2006 09:35 AM  

This is how I like to do it

Whole squid fished on a tandem rig is my late-season favorite method for fishing the larger fish that we see here on the South Shore that time of year. I make up a rig with a 4/0 Gami Octopus snelled on the end of a 36" leader (50lb test leader material NOT mono fishing line, which is too limp, imo). Then I snell a 3/0 Octopus to the main leader line in such a way that its actually snelled around the main line. This permits me to slide that second hook fwd or back to the proper position - depending on the size of the squid I select for bait.

What I do then is to take the squid and strip off the two wings and throw them overboard. Leaving them on will do nothing for you except make the bait spin on the leader as its pulled through the water. This wing-tossing also has an occasional excellent side effect as last season we had a nice 7lb Dolphin come under the boat and eat those wings as we tossed them overboard. A quick flip with a shrimp-tipped bucktail by my alert fishin' buddy Gus put that beautiful fish right in the fishbox.

Anyway, I then take the bottom hook of the rig and drive it into the squid's head, dead-nuts right between the eyes. Next the sliding hook gets positioned up on the leader such that the barb will go right thru the foremost tip of the mantle, about 1/4" from the tip itself. It is hyper-critical that space between the two hooks is properly set by the postioning of sliding hook otherwise the squid will spin in the water and not catch a thing. If there's the slightest curve to the squid's body what it will do is to completely twist up your leader and make a major mess for you to untangle at the end of a strangely unproductive drift. When you get the rig into the boat you will see exactly why that drift had no results.

The tying of that sliding hook tandem rig was covered on this board a week or so ago - I respectfully suggest that you study that thread and if you decide that the rig is not something that you can tie properly, then there are commercially available versions like the "Boa" that will do perfectly well for you.

Here's that thread: Boa Rig Thread

I just think that the reason to read this board to begin with is to better hone your personal fishing skills, and learning the terminal tackle side of things is one of the more basic and enjoyable sides to this knowledge search. For me at least there's little in the hobby that gives me more satisfaction than learning a new rigging technique and applying it in a manner that results in some nice fish in the boat. So I would encourage you to learn how to make up that sliding rig. Remember one thing - when you pull that sliding hook's snell tight, don't make it so tight that you can't move the hook up and down the main line. The key to this rig is applying just the right amount of tension to that sliding snell such that it can be adjusted fairly easily, yet still holds tight enough to the main leader that it pulls the squid straight thru the water. Takes a bit of practice to get it just right, but once you learn it, it stays with you forever. No worse than tying an improved blood knot, just different.

As far as what to do with squid that get mangled by short strikes or dogfish attacks - I save those mantles and strip them out for use on the other rod I fish on the opposite (Or up-tide side) of the boat - fished dead-stick style out of an angled side-rigger type rod holder. On that setup - typically a Calcutta 400 on a stiff-ish St. Croix PM610MF - I have a B/S rig set up with a super-heavy sinker (Think 10 to 16oz to hold that rig close to vertical so that the delicate braid doesn't rub on the boat's bottom) and large teaser with a big strip of that damaged squid on it. Its a cool thing to see that rod get hit and take a deep bend as a large fluke realizes that he just made the mistake of his life. Probably the last one he's gonna get a chance to make, if I play my cards right. Now if your whole squid had gotten mangled in its mid-section, such that the head and tentacles are still intact, that's a bonus. Use that head on the teaser. Big fluke think of a squid head tipped teaser like I think of a fresh, warm Krispie Kreme "Original" - it just won't last very long.

Oh, one last thing - I prefer the frozen West Coast squids that are sold frozen in 3lb bricks. Exactly the right size for this fishing and unlike the fresh local stuff that the better fishmarkets sell for human consumption. The heads are tight in the body, not falling out of them. I hate that and find loose heads counterproductive to my efforts. For fishing on a sliding snell rig, this makes a huge difference.

Good luck, Lep


"Hi, my name is Pete and I have a fishing gear problem."

This post edited by Leprechaun 08:55 AM 05/31/2011
 
funcatching

Joined: 08/26/2003
Posts: 681
 posted 05/17/2006 10:51 AM  

Wow, Lep that's a lot of info you just throw in.

In fact I did read the threads on tandem hook rig and tie couples myself. I also bought some BOA rigs last year but I found the problem with its "secret knot" is it only slides well when dry, once it got wet it's very hard to move the hook or when you're in a hurry (hot bite). Now with the sliding top hook, I have a question - since it is slidable, what happen when setting the hook while the fluke is in fact biting the top hook part? It happened last Sunday on my 1st drift I had 2 fish-on, both fish got off near the surface, which made me think that I didn't get a good hook-set with the sliding hook.
 
Leprechaun
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Location: Wantagh/Seaford, N.Y.
 posted 05/17/2006 11:10 AM  

There shouldn't be any problem hooking fish on that sliding hook. What typically happens is that the weight of a good fish will slide that hook backwards till it gets jammed up against the rearmost hook.

Tied properly it will hold any fluke you might hook - as atested to by my 11.2lb fish last season - it had just the sliding hook in its lower jaw. The larger trailing hook was not attached to the fish.

Lep


"Hi, my name is Pete and I have a fishing gear problem."
 
gebby

Joined: 09/25/2001
Posts: 2062
Location: wantagh
 posted 05/17/2006 12:48 PM  

some funny stuff here, to me at least. ive only fished whole squid once, on bassman909s boat in 60-70 feet when the fleet was doing very well on just keeper sized fish in 40-45 feet straight out of jones. i tied my own double rigs, as i recall they didnt slide at all both were fixed. i mightve even used a rubberless baittail jig with a trailer on mono. i also hooked em wrong, backwards according the wisdom here (i did make sure they ran straight). and while we didnt kill the fish, i seem to remember some nice 22-24 inch fish on my rig that mightve pushed molitor into tying on one of my googans rigs, to no avail as i recall. im willing to bet if lep or mike or another sharpie was fishing the body of fish we had under the boat they wouldve embarassed us. i guess my point is its fishing, totally wrong may work as well, but you cant be afraid to try. and i guess my other point is i really wanted to dig bassman909 a bit. he ALWAYS kicks my azz when bass fishing. lep i will try your system late season.


Now, you've got a corpse in a car, minus a head, in a garage. Take me to it.
 
Leprechaun
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Location: Wantagh/Seaford, N.Y.
 posted 05/17/2006 01:22 PM  

Stop by my house and I'll give you one of my rigs to copy.

Lep


"Hi, my name is Pete and I have a fishing gear problem."
 
funcatching

Joined: 08/26/2003
Posts: 681
 posted 05/17/2006 04:18 PM  

Hi Lep, now you got me think that fluke did bite the funnel sometimes, not just the head (in fact I caught 2 on the top hook). Now I put the top hook on a dropper loop, so it's fixed. I'll leave some slack on the line while making sure the squid is not curl up. Let's see how it works out. Did you use fish-finder for the weight? or just a 3-way?
 
funcatching

Joined: 08/26/2003
Posts: 681
 posted 05/17/2006 04:25 PM  

Another interesting question is - why "deadsticking" is better than my own hands? My deadsticking rod seems always got the fluke hooked while the one I am holding sometimes failed.
 
Leprechaun
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 posted 05/17/2006 06:16 PM  

I like a good 3-Way with about 8-10" of stiff leader material to the sinker snap.

I pretty much always dead-stick for my fluke. Others will disagree, some pretty violently, saying that its better to jig or drop-back on the hit or whatever it is that works well for them. God bless 'em, but for me the deadstick works. I believe this is due to the way my boat's hull rolls gently in everything but a typhoon - which gives my lures or baits a nice rythmic up and down jigging motion. I also believe that too many people play around way too much with the old "Should I strike now? - Should I drop back?" indecisive conundrum process.

Here's what I do: I put the lines out and sit down on my inboard engine box like a gentleman, have a Diet Pepsi, and watch the rod tips like a hawk. After about 2 minutes I will have a good handle on how the tips are bowing to the waves as they roll under the boat that particular day. Any twitch or slight bounce in those tips OTHER THAN the regular rythmic movement is a "Tip-off," that somebody's interested in what I have to offer. Now come decision time. Pick up the rod and attempt to tease the fish into taking the lure or bait deeper into its mouth, or chill and let the fish put a real bend in the rod?

Good question. I generally (Decisively?) go with "Plan B" until its been sufficiently proven to me that its not working. I like to see that rod bend beautifully waaay over with the weight of the fish before I pick it up out of the rod holder. Once that deep bend is in the rod, odds are that the fish has a real good lip-lock on my bait and even better odds are that the needle-sharp hand-honed hook I use will have already set itself in the fish's mouth. If I pick up the rod and the fish manages to outfox me and lets go of my bait, first I curse really loudly (I find this to be a critical part of the process), then I'll give a few 4" twitches with just the very tip of the rod. I'm thinkin' to make the bait look like its injured, but doesn't have quite the strength to really get away. Most fluke will come back and hit the rig again, if only out of meaness. And they are a mean and fearless predator, of that I have no doubt.

So that's how I do it. Most of the major fluke (say over 7lbs or so) that I've caught the past 10 seasons has come to me on the dead stick. I catch quite a few fish on the jigged rig too, but not the biggies, not for me. Those have liked the bait dead-sticked. Truth be told.

Lep


"Hi, my name is Pete and I have a fishing gear problem."

This post edited by Leprechaun 05:17 PM 05/16/2008
 
Gary Sinestra
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Joined: 08/31/2001
Posts: 588
Location: Westbury
 posted 05/17/2006 08:34 PM  

Rigging Squid another idea

Pete B or "Lep" has given a nice beliveable, practical, workable, catachable treatise on the rigging. I cannot add anything of substance other than if you don't rig this stuff right your squid will look like a Roger Federer tennis ball bouncimng on the bottom in the fetal positon. I have suffered good and bad with this type of set up more so because of my own lack/frustration and also the behavior of the Grady White in deeper drifting conditions 70-85', I needed a big bait but some improvisation.

Here is what I do out there in the ocean I have not caught a double digit fluke yet but this rig has given me a nice supply of fish between 5-8 pounds. Here goes and for the sake of brevity I'll aprroximate things.

I start with a 3 way swivel one eye tied directly to the braid the running line ( I know you question this but I have never had a break off at the 3 way doing this without a leader, I want maximum feel as I do have scope in my line, the nature of the driting conditions etc.

The second eye holds my sinker I use 40 pound test sturdy Hi Seas or soemtimes Ande leader material for the sinker this is important to prevent wrapping I keep it at about 10" long.

To the final eye of the swivel I attach a 36" 40 pound test leader material a 3/0-4/0 Owner, Gama, bait holder razor sharp Eagle claw hook- the baitholder style is important they are pretty short shanked hooks. My concept is simple with the braid in the deeper water I want within reason a guarantee that my rig is not spinning and it is down there for the length of the drift ( whats worse than leaving a rig in drift mode that is not working when you thought it was working.)

I dead stick the rods as well (Medium Heavy blanks) BUT if the bite is tough or the depth finder shows me something I start to jig like crazy it sometimes works. I keep one rod with rigged up with a heavy bullet 4-5 0z and I jig that one too. In my crazier days i fished solo with 3 rods in holders and working a 4th pathetic I know - I am nervous what can I say.

Bait the idea is big and or fresh I use two pieces on one hook. I cut a nice 8" slice of fluke belly (white side)that little fringe on each side great stuff, or nice fresh squid, the fluke belly holds along time and the meat on the belly is good. One piece I thread up the hook just pass the eye of the hook it dangles back down the hook, but doesnot interfere with e second bait. The second piece I place at the hooks end: bottom line 2 swimming baits and they do swim nicely if you contour them right. I have watched them in the water numerous times if they don't swim right I personally retire them to the "old bait retirement home" . Also if you place them right they don't foul they simply cannot. What have I seen and what are my theories? I have caught before mentioned fish on just the bottom piece the top piece is left alone. Other times they hit the top piece they missed the bottom piece, rarley do they take both. Now this is a wild ass theory but this double bait rig ( only one hook) looks like either one large bait or two smaller baits swimming in tandem.

I am convinced that as the bigger fluke hits the bottom bait first the close proximity to the second bait attached above the hook eye is in the field of vison and they eat up the hook shank abit-just theories. The skates don't seem too like this rig.

I am missing the second hook with this rig which might sound like a deal breaker but for me my hookup ratio is pretty good because I have used it for awhile. Use the other rigs first and maybe give thios obne a go if you feel experimental. So there it is just an idea now all we need is some bigger fluke to chase - as always great info on this board. Regards Gary of the Sinestra.




Gary korbel
 
paulh


Joined: 11/29/2000
Posts: 1468
 posted 05/18/2006 12:33 AM  

Pete the "Lep" is on the money in many respects. I would add this, from my experience on my 2520DV Parker, which can "snap" roll under some conditions. To get the correct dead stick jigging motion when it's a bit choppy, keep the crew on the "windward" side, get the chine buried. Watch the tips carefully, and you'll be in business. "Super market" squid is the most convenient bait ever, and effective to boot.


"It seems the harder I fish the luckier I get"

F/V Emily S
 
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