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lessons of canyon fishing

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  Discussion Boards > Offshore
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reelenutz

Joined: 02/14/2009
Posts: 125
Location: Rocky Point
 posted 09/16/2013 12:00 AM  

To all that ask about running too the deep in small boats.....Yesterday I decided too run to the Hudson on my 32 contender. The forecast was 5 too 15 nw dropping out to 5 too 10 and switching too SW...We left Moriches at 430 and ran too the 100 Sqr...Whelp by the time we got too the Bacardi there was no turning back..it was howling and solid 6fts..we reached the hudson tip at dark and continued too the Sqr in the dark...Little scary..Reached the Sqr and it was too dark too look for a Pot too tie off to..So we had too drift...by 230 am we where in 3000ft of water and IT WAS HOWLING!!!!So we slowly ran up on the flats at 5mph and an hour and half later we stopped and reset...That was and hour of nerve racking inching threw solid 6fts..I called too the monster size sports tied too the string of pots. asking for a weather update. But No one replied....Douch bags!!!..After reseting we put 6 Mahi in the box and a 125 sword....(Its funny how fighting fish gets your mind off how ****** the conditions where)..a few hours later the sun came up and it was rough...Cleared the deck and set up on the troll...longfins where plentiful....So the point of this story is....They get the forecast wrong ALOT! and often its wrong for the worst then the better...Be careful.I have many many years for running too the edge and I broke the cardinal rule...Light and varible or nothing...So too the newbys who are considering this type of fishing...Be careful....I was second guessing my self alot last night and my crews safety was more important too my own...I have 2 epirds and a life raft...but You never know....Good fishing and I hope that you'll read this and remember...Never trust the forecast


put your time In...Thats the secrete to success
 
MakoMatt
Noreast.com Club Member


Moderator
Offshore

Joined: 07/14/2002
Posts: 13142
Location: 26313.0/43267.8
 posted 09/16/2013 05:02 AM  

The weather forecast are wrong often this time of year, and the "Blue Bird" days become far and in-between as we settle in for the colder months. The gentle SW winds we see in Spring/Summer begin to yield way to the Northerly's.

Pick your days very carefully.


 
hb561

Joined: 10/26/2011
Posts: 92
 posted 09/16/2013 08:01 AM  

Great post. Yes catching fish takes your mind off of the weather, but hats off to you for doing what was safe for your crew, boat and yourself. A 32 contender is a beast of a boat, I ran one, but it goes to show that no amount of boat is safe in the canyon during fall. Everyone thinking about running a 20 something footer should have this story implanted.
 
38Holla


Joined: 08/11/2004
Posts: 252
 posted 09/16/2013 10:33 AM  

I agree that 20' boats should not be in the canyons especially in the fall.

When going offshore you need to be prepared for all possible events.

6' seas are not that bad if you are prepared and in the right boat with the right equipment.

Anchor - you need one. Yes even in any of the offshore canyons. Anchoring provides a level of safety in some conditions that can't be denied. Keeps the bow into the sea, alleviates the effects of current and sea.

Anchoring also allows you to fish in an area that may actually be fish productive. We have 3000' of anchor rode on the boat with a heavy weather modified Danforth 35 Hi-Tensile anchor.

Sea Anchor - indispensable piece of equipment especially on boats that have no room for 3000' of anchor and chain. A parachute style sea anchor can be deployed easily and safely and slow your drift down.
Allow your boat to drift before the sea, and control your angle of drift depending on where you deploy it on your boat.

The Sea Anchor is a very useful tool even when the weather is great. Slows your drift down. Can aid in getting your baits in a position that is more advantageous for fishing (instead of running forward).

Barometer - yes every boat should have one. If you compare the readings on the barometer to what the forecast has presented you can make a more informed decision. Falling barometer to the low side or steady rising to the high can both indicate wind events.

Isobaric charts - Nothing like seeing the wind as is predicted over many hundreds of miles.

6' seas is the norm this time of year. Types of boats, types of safety equipment and ability to read some basic meteorological tools greatly impact every trip.

Be safe, be smart and have some fun.
 
TonySMJC


Joined: 10/06/2005
Posts: 3030
Location: Brooklyn
 posted 09/16/2013 12:01 PM  

Excellent real world experiance

Glad you made it home safely
A little older and wiser

And that was in a 32 foot regulator




Take a kid fishing they are the future of our sport and our world
 
PURSUIT2


Joined: 08/22/2001
Posts: 698
Location: Belle Harbor
 posted 09/16/2013 09:20 PM  

We were there. The weather report was f'd. I had 68 on all night, and did not hear any conversation at all. I would have answered back if I heard anything. I was by the East Elbow. If you are gonna find a pot and tie off in those conditions, you need to do it 1/2 hour before dark.


"Raging C's"
46' Viking - QSM11's
Rockaway, NY
 
JaredCoffin

Joined: 10/07/2012
Posts: 91
 posted 09/19/2013 02:45 PM  

Sounds like you are fairly well equipped and have a nice expensive boat, how can you go offshore without proper ground tackle or a drift sock.? Always blows my mind
 
Jigalow

Joined: 11/07/2005
Posts: 657
 posted 09/20/2013 07:01 AM  

JaredCoffin wrote:

Sounds like you are fairly well equipped and have a nice expensive boat, how can you go offshore without proper ground tackle or a drift sock.? Always blows my mind


Pretty easy actually, turn the key, untie the lines, put it in gear.
We prefer to drift in the deep anyway, no way to anchor out there... I figure if it's so rough you need to anchor it's time to go home. especially when you consider the danger involved in retrieving an anchor in heavy seas.

 
JaredCoffin

Joined: 10/07/2012
Posts: 91
 posted 09/20/2013 08:08 AM  

oh sounds good

if it gets too rough time to head home? what happens if you have a problem and are dead in the water? just drift? you need a way to keep your bow into the seas in an emergency situation. what happens when its wicked rough and your beating your way to nowhere and you get something in the props? just drift in a small center console in 8ft seas? what if you have a real problem and you have no propulsion? something tells me your not mechanical. You need a way to keep your bow into the seas while you deal with the problem or call for a two. Get a sea anchor.
 
asiegel


Joined: 07/08/2004
Posts: 829
Location: Niantic, CT
 posted 09/21/2013 07:42 PM  

Drifting is fine. I usually make multiple sets in heavy wind. Sea anchors are not so easy to deal with in rough conditions. The gear required to anchor my boat is rather massive. I also refuse to tie up to highfliers any more. In an emergency a makeshift drogue works pretty well - been there, done that, in 30 foot seas no less.


Gaff and release
 
38Holla


Joined: 08/11/2004
Posts: 252
 posted 09/21/2013 09:11 PM  

ASEIGEL wrote:

Drifting is fine. I usually make multiple sets in heavy wind. Sea anchors are not so easy to deal with in rough conditions. The gear required to anchor my boat is rather massive. I also refuse to tie up to highfliers any more. In an emergency a makeshift drogue works pretty well - been there, done that, in 30 foot seas no less.


Spoken like someone who has not been there enough to understand the simplicity of ground gear and a sea anchor or the simplicity of its deployment.

Drifting on a small boat without a way to control the bow is unsafe.
Going offshore on any vessel not designed for heavy weather without ground gear and a sea anchor is irresponsible.

If you in fact you were in 30' seas judging from your avatar on a Carolina built sportfisherman of some make you got lucky.

30' seas are savage. You did not drift in them on that boat or any other sportfisherman save a 32' Contender as the OP was talking about without some type of ground gear.

I speak from experience. Those hi-fliers that you no longer tie up to many of them were mine. I spent 15 years fishing offshore in the NE canyons for tuna and lobster. The boat I owned was a beast. 10' draft, 4000 gallons of fuel, 6000 gallon lobster tank. I have been in weather you speak about more than I care to remember.

Please dont dilute the seriousness of this conversation with untruths or one offs about something you may have experienced.

If you couldnt deploy a parachute style sea anchor easily you are not skilled in heavy weather sailing.

If the gear required to anchor your sportfisherman is rather massive than you need another boat. My smaller than your sportfisherman downesaster, that I currently own has both a sea anchor and the proper anchoring gear.

If you have nothing appropriate to say keep it to your self.

Your post is careless and not thought out.


This post edited by 38Holla 09:30 AM 09/22/2013
 
MakoMatt
Noreast.com Club Member


Moderator
Offshore

Joined: 07/14/2002
Posts: 13142
Location: 26313.0/43267.8
 posted 09/22/2013 07:26 AM  

All of us have varying amounts of experience, and bring different contributions to the "discussion table."

With that thought let us all keep the conversation on subject, and civil.

Thanks,
Matt
 
lowlands

Joined: 02/21/2004
Posts: 627
 posted 09/22/2013 08:57 AM  

I carry a fiorentino sea anchor with the fast haul line attached to a float. I always have a line running from the pulpit back to the cockpit in case we have to deploy it. This prevents someone from having to be on the bow. We also have a pre-made pendant line we can use to control the angle of the sea to the bow.

We can deploy and retrieve right from the cockpit. I usually use about 50-60 feet of line for fishing, and have 300 for storms.

I never tie off either. I do admit to not having the 2k-3k feet of rhode to anchor up out there, but so far I haven't had to.

Deploying and retrieving a sea anchor isn't hard to do. Like anything else, you just need practice and technique.

We also carry a full solas-a package. I've never had to use any of that either.
 
Jigalow

Joined: 11/07/2005
Posts: 657
 posted 09/22/2013 08:59 AM  

JaredCoffin wrote:

if it gets too rough time to head home? what happens if you have a problem and are dead in the water? just drift? you need a way to keep your bow into the seas in an emergency situation. what happens when its wicked rough and your beating your way to nowhere and you get something in the props? just drift in a small center console in 8ft seas? what if you have a real problem and you have no propulsion? something tells me your not mechanical. You need a way to keep your bow into the seas while you deal with the problem or call for a two. Get a sea anchor.

I'm not disagreeing with you, proper ground tackle and sea anchor would be nice to have. However, the reality is most boats have either a physical or financial limit to how much safety gear one can bring so trade offs need to be made. To your comment above, if you did become disabled in threatening conditions, that's when you turn your VHF to 16 and put some of your tax dollars to work and call the CG. As long as you've used good judgment up until that point and didn't wait too long to make the call to head in you should be fine.



This post edited by Jigalow 09:23 AM 09/22/2013
 
JaredCoffin

Joined: 10/07/2012
Posts: 91
 posted 09/22/2013 02:36 PM  

so you don't have enough money for an anchor? cant or wont learn how to use a sock. If its rough and you lose power you will just call the CG? pretty stupid man
 
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