Saltwater Fishing Discussion Board Including Inshore Fishing, Offshore Fishing, Saltwater Fly Fishing and Kayak Fishing

our legislators will continue to pass laws to justify their existance.i am cut off daily by cell phone users,texters and the like while driving my car.governor patterson is a complete dope and i will not get a license nor wear a life preserver because some dope named antione thompson say's i have to.what the hell is wrong with all of us.vote all these dopes out! stop passing laws that are meaningless and enforce the unenforced laws already on the books.

Flukinicehole

Joined: 10/25/2003
Posts: 3152
Location: I'm 100 miles away son... ready to strike!

posted 11/02/2009 08:26 PM

Miko90 wrote:
Apparently anything 21' and under, you need to be wearing a PFD. I think it is from 11/1 - 4/1 or something like that.

You know because it's a lot harder to fall out of the boat or capsize it in the Spring, Summer and early fall.

When the water is colder hypothermia sets in quicker. A PFD assures if you die they can still find the body. When the water is warmer you will be able to swim longer. Is this their reasoning?

P.V. Piker

The UAW will be broken which one will be next?

Please do not follow our leader he is an idiot.

JohnnyKapalua

Joined: 09/14/2004
Posts: 518

posted 11/02/2009 09:03 PM

Re-post of "The Law"

I'll re-post this from another thread.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, REPRESENTED IN SENATE AND ASSEMBLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

Section 1. The subdivision heading of subdivision 1 of section 40 of the navigation law, as amended by chapter 74 of the laws of 1998, is amended to read as follows:

[personal] PERSONAL flotation devices.

S 2. Subdivision 1 of section 40 of the navigation law is amended by adding a new paragraph (e) to read as follows:

(E) NO OWNER OR OPERATOR OF A PLEASURE VESSEL LESS THAN TWENTY-ONE FEET, INCLUDING ROWBOATS, CANOES, AND KAYAKS SHALL PERMIT ITS OPERATION, BETWEEN NOVEMBER FIRST AND MAY FIRST, UNLESS EACH PERSON ON BOARD SUCH VESSEL IS WEARING A SECURELY FASTENED UNITED STATES COAST GUARD APPROVED WEARABLE PERSONAL FLOTATION DEVICE OF AN APPROPRIATE SIZE WHEN SUCH VESSEL IS UNDERWAY.
S 3. This act shall take effect on the first of November next succeed-
ing the date on which it shall have become a law.

It has always been a rule of thought on any law passed in NYS by all attorneys. The NYS legislature likes to save ink. If they meant twenty-one feet and less they would have written that. They wrote "Less than 21 feet". Which means what it says.

Now for a good deal. FOR ANYONE THAT THIS affects, CHECK OUT CABELAS. Good sale on XL PFD III fishing vest in Royal Blue/Black only..............$59.00 now is $19.99. A deal.

dragonfishing
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posted 11/02/2009 10:13 PM

Once again this is a clear case of law enforcement not knowing or understanding the law.
I may not own a boat but have had similar problems in the past, a few years ago a purchased a kayak as a means to reach some beaches (that I will not name) to surf cast from, now I knew the law (referring to the PTD) and yes some of these beaches were posted “private property” but I never went above the high water mark, left any trash behind, or any trace other than foot prints that I was even there.
But on more than one occasion I was threatened by land owners and law enforcement alike that I was trespassing, when I had mentioned that I was in my legal rights of our constitution I was told that they had no idea what I was talking about or that they had never heard of that before.
So what I did one day was print out a copy of the Public Trust Doctrine and laminated it, I carried it w/ me and wouldn’t you know it I never was approached again.
To try to make a long story short (if that’s not to late already) I now do 90% of my fishing from my kayak but my point is that if the law states that “pleasure vessel less than twenty-one feet” and people w/ twenty one or twenty- one and a half feet are being told that they will be given tickets may I recommend making a copy of the law, laminating it and keep it on you vessel.
It is unfortunate that you have to educate people on how to do there jobs, but it beats spending time in a court house.

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chawk

Joined: 04/15/2005
Posts: 476
Location: Huntington

posted 11/02/2009 11:37 PM

to Miko,
Yes the Parker is over 21'. 21'8" I believe. But that did not matter to the CG. He said they go by what is on the regi, which just says 21'.

JohnnyK, Thanks for reposting the law. I thought I read it that way and said so to the CG, but he told me I was wrong, it was 21' and under. Again, he also said it included being at anchor and fishing (was underway). Go figure! Guess I will take Dragon's idea and copy right from the state website and give it to my buddy for his boat for next time. My chawk is a 22' so I guess I squeak by. However, I already do wear my sospenders when fishing alone, at this time of year anyway.

Huntington Angler's Club

This post edited by chawk 11:40 PM 11/02/2009

Squeri Boy

Joined: 02/21/2002
Posts: 691
Location: Emories Basin, LI

posted 11/03/2009 12:17 AM

Flukinicehole wrote:
Miko90 wrote:
Apparently anything 21' and under, you need to be wearing a PFD. I think it is from 11/1 - 4/1 or something like that.

You know because it's a lot harder to fall out of the boat or capsize it in the Spring, Summer and early fall.

When the water is colder hypothermia sets in quicker. A PFD assures if you die they can still find the body. When the water is warmer you will be able to swim longer. Is this their reasoning?

It has nothing to do with them finding your body. The reason is that if you are not wearing a PFD, you have to tread water or swim. The loss of energy will cause the hypothermia to set in even faster. If it sets off hypothermia by even 5 minutes, it may save your life.

Over the years, when you look at fatalities in NY, you will see that about 50% of them are in small crafts under 20 feet in cold water months. Unfortunately, many of them are on row boats, kayaks and canoes, which are not registered vessels.

These non-motorized crafts utilize ramps, access and law enforcement paid mostly by boating registrations. They count against our fatality rate but yet pay no reg fees.

Pro Staff - Chaos, Gamakatsu, SPRO, Pelagic, Canyon Runner

dragonfishing
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posted 11/03/2009 01:26 AM

Squeri Boy wrote:
Flukinicehole wrote:
Miko90 wrote:
Apparently anything 21' and under, you need to be wearing a PFD. I think it is from 11/1 - 4/1 or something like that.

You know because it's a lot harder to fall out of the boat or capsize it in the Spring, Summer and early fall.

When the water is colder hypothermia sets in quicker. A PFD assures if you die they can still find the body. When the water is warmer you will be able to swim longer. Is this their reasoning?

It has nothing to do with them finding your body. The reason is that if you are not wearing a PFD, you have to tread water or swim. The loss of energy will cause the hypothermia to set in even faster. If it sets off hypothermia by even 5 minutes, it may save your life.

Over the years, when you look at fatalities in NY, you will see that about 50% of them are in small crafts under 20 feet in cold water months. Unfortunately, many of them are on row boats, kayaks and canoes, which are not registered vessels.

These non-motorized crafts utilize ramps, access and law enforcement paid mostly by boating registrations. They count against our fatality rate but yet pay no reg fees.

Yeah those kayak guys take up a lot of space at “your ramp” I mean w/ those wheels they must be almost 36”wide, and how about all those pollutants and emissions.
I even heard that there tax money was only spent inland.
Wait are you mad because they catch all of “your fish”?

Roll

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Hunt n' Fish
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posted 11/03/2009 01:33 AM

dragonfishing wrote:
now I knew the law (referring to the PTD) and yes some of these beaches were posted “private property” but I never went above the high water mark, left any trash behind, or any trace other than foot prints that I was even there.
But on more than one occasion I was threatened by land owners and law enforcement alike that I was trespassing, when I had mentioned that I was in my legal rights of our constitution I was told that they had no idea what I was talking about or that they had never heard of that before.

This came up last season, with the Shoreham Beach ban. Below mean high water does not always apply. There are many places, on the North Shore especially, where landowners do OWN the bottom lands out a distance, either to mean low water, or sometimes further. In those cases, you would be trespassing if you were standing on their property. You could float over it with your kayak, but standing or anchoring would be trespassing. You need to go to the town hall and check the tax maps to be sure.

Strong's Neck in Port Jeff Harbor is a good example where many of the homes own the bottomlands out to the Mean Low Water.

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Hunt n' Fish
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posted 11/03/2009 01:45 AM

dragonfishing wrote:
Wait are you mad because they catch all of “your fish”?

Dragonfishing,

You should take the time to fully read what you're looking at, and learn who your speaking to so sarcastically before you type. First, Chris (Squeriboy) didn't say anything with "anger," just simply stated a fact. That non paying users of access, are counted toward all pleasure boaters accidents. Even when it's stated in law that a canoe and rowboat are NOT considered pleasure boats.

§ 2. Definitions.
The following terms when used in this chapter unless otherwise expressly stated, or unless the context of the language or subject matter indicates a different meaning or application was intended, shall be deemed to mean and include:

6. "Vessel" shall mean any floating craft and all vessels shall belong to one of the following classes:
(a) "Public Vessel" shall mean and include every vessel which is propelled in whole or in part by mechanical power and is used or operated for commercial purposes on the navigable waters of the state; that is either carrying passengers, carrying freight, towing, or for any other use; for which a compensation is received, either directly or where provided as an accommodation, advantage, facility or privilege at any place of public accommodation, resort or amusement.
(b) "Residential vessel" shall mean and include every vessel which is used primarily as a residence.
(c) "Pleasure vessel" shall mean and include every vessel not within the classification of public vessel or residential vessel. However, the provisions of this chapter shall not apply to rowboats and canoes except as otherwise expressly provided.

Second, Chris is Executive Director of the New York Marine Trades Association, and in a position to be "in the know" about these issues. So you might want to take a breath, stop beating your kayak paddle against your chest, and take the time understand what he's writing before you react.

President, RAIBS
Recreational Anglers against Internet BS

This post edited by Hunt n' Fish 02:17 AM 11/03/2009

dragonfishing
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posted 11/03/2009 01:49 AM

Hunt n' Fish wrote:
dragonfishing wrote:
now I knew the law (referring to the PTD) and yes some of these beaches were posted “private property” but I never went above the high water mark, left any trash behind, or any trace other than foot prints that I was even there.
But on more than one occasion I was threatened by land owners and law enforcement alike that I was trespassing, when I had mentioned that I was in my legal rights of our constitution I was told that they had no idea what I was talking about or that they had never heard of that before.

This came up last season, with the Shoreham Beach ban. Below mean high water does not always apply. There are many places, on the North Shore especially, where landowners do OWN the bottom lands out a distance, either to mean low water, or sometimes further. In those cases, you would be trespassing if you were standing on their property. You could float over it with your kayak, but standing or anchoring would be trespassing. You need to go to the town hall and check the tax maps to be sure.

Strong's Neck in Port Jeff Harbor is a good example where many of the homes own the bottomlands out to the Mean Low Water.

Yes I do remember hearing that at one of the meetings (standing in the back stifled w/ censorship) but thought that only pertained to shoreum beach and was cleared up when
Lesko kept his word. Thanks for the heads up Hunt N’ fish, you may saved me some grief!

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Hunt n' Fish
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posted 11/03/2009 02:11 AM

dragonfishing wrote:
Yes I do remember hearing that at one of the meetings (standing in the back stifled w/ censorship) but thought that only pertained to shoreum beach and was cleared up when
Lesko kept his word. Thanks for the heads up Hunt N’ fish, you may saved me some grief!

It did not apply in the Shoreham Beach case. Those homeowners did not own below Mean High Water. But at that time, a lot of people were touting the PTD, without understanding that there are places on Long Island, where individual people, HOA's, and villages, do own bottom lands beyond Mean High Water, and they CAN restrict access to those lands. Not the waters of the state which lie above them, but to the land (wading, anchoring, etc) itself.

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dragonfishing
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posted 11/03/2009 02:12 AM

Hunt n' Fish wrote:
dragonfishing wrote:
Wait are you mad because they catch all of “your fish”?

Dragonfishing,

You should take the time to fully read what you'r looking at, and learn who your speaking to so sarcastically before you type. First, Chris (Squeriboy) didn't say anyting with "anger," just simply stated a fact. That non paying users of access, are counted toward all pleasure boaters accidents. Even when it's stated in law that a canoe and rowboat are NOT considered pleasure boats.

§ 2. Definitions.
The following terms when used in this chapter unless otherwise expressly stated, or unless the context of the language or subject matter indicates a different meaning or application was intended, shall be deemed to mean and include:

6. "Vessel" shall mean any floating craft and all vessels shall belong to one of the following classes:
(a) "Public Vessel" shall mean and include every vessel which is propelled in whole or in part by mechanical power and is used or operated for commercial purposes on the navigable waters of the state; that is either carrying passengers, carrying freight, towing, or for any other use; for which a compensation is received, either directly or where provided as an accommodation, advantage, facility or privilege at any place of public accommodation, resort or amusement.
(b) "Residential vessel" shall mean and include every vessel which is used primarily as a residence.
(c) "Pleasure vessel" shall mean and include every vessel not within the classification of public vessel or residential vessel. However, the provisions of this chapter shall not apply to rowboats and canoes except as otherwise expressly provided.

Second, Chris is Executive Director of the New York Marine Trades Association, and in a position to be "in the know" about these issues. So you might want to take a breath, stop beating your kayak paddle against your chest, and take the time understand what he's writing before you react.

I will admit I was being a bit of a wise ars, it was just humorous sarcasm.
I haven’t slept much in the past few days, maybe I am reading into the last part wrong. Confused

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Hunt n' Fish
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posted 11/03/2009 02:23 AM

dragonfishing wrote:
I haven’t slept much in the past few days,

I hope the fishing's been good. Smile

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dragonfishing
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posted 11/03/2009 02:53 AM

Hunt n' Fish wrote:
dragonfishing wrote:
I haven’t slept much in the past few days,

I hope the fishing's been good.

How does the saying go….wishin I was fishin!
Haven’t been out since Friday night, posted pics and story in kayak forum,
My daughter has been having a bad reaction to a vaccine, up to 105 fever for three days now.

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JohnnyKapalua

Joined: 09/14/2004
Posts: 518

posted 11/03/2009 10:32 AM

for "Hunt & Fish"

There's been some good commentary on this thread. In the Capt's corner, a thread by Capt MARKS also covers this topic with more commentary. Is it possible to transfer/combine all this into that thread?