Saltwater Fishing Discussion Board Including Inshore Fishing, Offshore Fishing, Saltwater Fly Fishing and Kayak Fishing

Effective on November 2, 2009, at the request of the New England Fishery Management Council, NOAA Fisheries Service's Northeast Regional Administrator is adding three conditions to to the Gulf of Maine /Georges Bank Herring Midwater Trawl Authorization Letter for vessels fishing in Closed Area 1:
100 percent observer coverage
Prohibition on slipped codends, and
Requirement that all fish be pumped aboard to allow sampling by the observer.
Reports of groundfish bycatch in Area 1 over the past several years prompted the New England Fishery Management Council to request that NOAA Fisheries Service implement additional observer requirements for vessels that fish with midwater trawl gear, in order to obtain additional bycatch information. Access to other Northeast multispecies closed areas is not affected by these regulation changes.

====MakoMike=====

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Codfisher

Joined: 07/26/2005
Posts: 534
Location: Gloucester, MA

posted 10/29/2009 08:33 AM

Thats the best news I have read in a while.

lowlands

Joined: 02/21/2004
Posts: 428

posted 10/29/2009 08:01 PM

Question. What does being pumped aboard mean? Is that a way to figure out what is in the nets so they can be released alive?

lobstercatcher

Joined: 11/06/2008
Posts: 612

posted 10/29/2009 08:12 PM

lowlands wrote:
Question. What does being pumped aboard mean? Is that a way to figure out what is in the nets so they can be released alive?

Fish are pumped aboard for counting porposes. Since there are to many regulations for a fisherman to abide by, there isn't enough time to count. therefore, NOAA mandated observers to count what there isn't enough time to count safely and in the alotted time the vessel is allowed to be on the ocean. The fishermen probably don't bring the fish aboard sometimes because they may have their quota filled. In this case if they get a surprise boarding they can get 100s of 1000s of dollars in fines. In alot of cases they are only allowed to keep a $100 dollars worth of fish if the price is bad. So they will probably give some observer 4 or 5 hundred dollars a day in wages benifits and retirement to watch some fishermqn make a 100 bucks with no benifits and no retiremnet.

This post edited by lobstercatcher 08:16 PM 10/29/2009

MakoMike
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posted 10/30/2009 07:48 AM

lowlands wrote:
Question. What does being pumped aboard mean? Is that a way to figure out what is in the nets so they can be released alive?

These are mid-water (herring) trawlers. They catch thousands of pounds of fish in one tow. There has been some evidence and lots of suspicion that they are catching lots of juvenile groundfish (cod and Haddock). Sometimes when they get the net to the back of the boat and realize that they have a net full of unwanted species (groundfish), they just slip the net and allow everything to spill out without bringing any fish aboard. Obviously if the fish don't come aboard, the observer can't count them. This rule requires them to pump the fish aboard, regardless of what species they are, so that the observer can do his thing.

====MakoMike=====

Click here for The Makomania Sportfishing website

Makomania out

codderman

Joined: 05/03/2002
Posts: 36
Location: Auburn, NH

posted 10/30/2009 09:47 PM

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like a positive development.

Codkiller

Joined: 02/23/2002
Posts: 2938
Location: Mason NH

posted 11/01/2009 01:21 PM

Unfortunately, there is a pretty large loophole in this according to reliable sources.
"If they have even one dogfish, they are allowed to slip the codend and let everything go back into the water."

Observer has no say.

Bob

nichefish

Joined: 06/06/2008
Posts: 71

posted 11/01/2009 06:35 PM

Codkiller wrote:
Unfortunately, there is a pretty large loophole in this according to reliable sources.
"If they have even one dogfish, they are allowed to slip the codend and let everything go back into the water."

Observer has no say.

Bob

This is probably not accurate. From a circa-September version of the proposed changes:

" NMFS recognizes that species composition in the catch, specifically
a high concentration of spiny dogfish, can cause the fish pump to clog, slowing the pump-out process and potentially damaging the rest of the catch. Therefore, NMFS proposes allowing fish to be released unsampled
if spiny dogfish are determined to comprise more than 50 percent of the catch, by weight. Pumping operations would have to be started so that the observer could determine that the quantity of spiny dogfish in the catch is sufficient to make pumping the remainder of the catch nearly impossible. A vessel would not be required to end the trip following a slipped codend due to a high concentration of spiny dogfish."

MakoMike
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posted 11/02/2009 06:32 AM

nichefish wrote:
Codkiller wrote:
Unfortunately, there is a pretty large loophole in this according to reliable sources.
"If they have even one dogfish, they are allowed to slip the codend and let everything go back into the water."

Observer has no say.

Bob

This is probably not accurate. From a circa-September version of the proposed changes:

" NMFS recognizes that species composition in the catch, specifically
a high concentration of spiny dogfish, can cause the fish pump to clog, slowing the pump-out process and potentially damaging the rest of the catch. Therefore, NMFS proposes allowing fish to be released unsampled
if spiny dogfish are determined to comprise more than 50 percent of the catch, by weight. Pumping operations would have to be started so that the observer could determine that the quantity of spiny dogfish in the catch is sufficient to make pumping the remainder of the catch nearly impossible. A vessel would not be required to end the trip following a slipped codend due to a high concentration of spiny dogfish."

If more than 50% of the catch is doggies they should be required to sit them on deck for two hours before putting them back in the water and slipping the cod end! Shades

====MakoMike=====

Click here for The Makomania Sportfishing website

Makomania out

This post edited by MakoMike 06:33 AM 11/02/2009

Codkiller

Joined: 02/23/2002
Posts: 2938
Location: Mason NH

posted 11/02/2009 06:38 AM

Make them count everyone of those endangered doggies.

Bob

lobstercatcher

Joined: 11/06/2008
Posts: 612

posted 11/02/2009 08:17 AM

MakoMike wrote:
lowlands wrote:
Question. What does being pumped aboard mean? Is that a way to figure out what is in the nets so they can be released alive?

These are mid-water (herring) trawlers. They catch thousands of pounds of fish in one tow. There has been some evidence and lots of suspicion that they are catching lots of juvenile groundfish (cod and Haddock). Sometimes when they get the net to the back of the boat and realize that they have a net full of unwanted species (groundfish), they just slip the net and allow everything to spill out without bringing any fish aboard. Obviously if the fish don't come aboard, the observer can't count them. This rule requires them to pump the fish aboard, regardless of what species they are, so that the observer can do his thing.

>>>" There has been some evidence and lots of suspicion that they are catching lots of juvenile groundfish (cod and Haddock)."

Juvenile by todays standards..... many of these sizes were what the public prefered. They use to be known as scrod... I don't know how long it takes to count a few thousand pounds of fish that have been cruched and have the bends but you can be sure most those fish are dead. So we get to count them. The fishermen can't keep them and make money. He has to throw them overboard so some recreational person is devistated by the site or thought of this huge amount of waiste and polution. The commercial guy has his hands tied. It ain't his fault!

MakoMike
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posted 11/02/2009 10:03 AM

lobstercatcher wrote:
MakoMike wrote:
lowlands wrote:
Question. What does being pumped aboard mean? Is that a way to figure out what is in the nets so they can be released alive?

These are mid-water (herring) trawlers. They catch thousands of pounds of fish in one tow. There has been some evidence and lots of suspicion that they are catching lots of juvenile groundfish (cod and Haddock). Sometimes when they get the net to the back of the boat and realize that they have a net full of unwanted species (groundfish), they just slip the net and allow everything to spill out without bringing any fish aboard. Obviously if the fish don't come aboard, the observer can't count them. This rule requires them to pump the fish aboard, regardless of what species they are, so that the observer can do his thing.

>>>" There has been some evidence and lots of suspicion that they are catching lots of juvenile groundfish (cod and Haddock)."

Juvenile by todays standards..... many of these sizes were what the public prefered. They use to be known as scrod... I don't know how long it takes to count a few thousand pounds of fish that have been cruched and have the bends but you can be sure most those fish are dead. So we get to count them. The fishermen can't keep them and make money. He has to throw them overboard so some recreational person is devistated by the site or thought of this huge amount of waiste and polution. The commercial guy has his hands tied. It ain't his fault!

Juvenile by anyones standards. Most of the fish they have caught were tiny (less than ten inches and were mixed in with the herring and sold as bait. No scrod landed. Besides the main point is that they are fishing in the GROUNDFISHING CLOSED AREA and they were allowed in there because they claimed that the midwater nets wouldn't catch any groundfish. If they are catching groundfish regardless if they are sold as bait or scrod, they shouldn't be fishing there. To allow them to fish in the GROUNDFISHING CLOSED AREA is not fair to the other COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN

If you are frequent reader of this section on this site you should know that I have no bias against commercial fishermen. This is mostly a commercial vs commercial issue since recreational fishermen are allowed to fish for groundfish with the closed areas.

====MakoMike=====

Click here for The Makomania Sportfishing website

Makomania out

This post edited by MakoMike 10:07 AM 11/02/2009

lobstercatcher

Joined: 11/06/2008
Posts: 612

posted 11/02/2009 03:08 PM

The overall veiw of this subject is widespread and the recreational fishermen are concerned also. The fishing management effort as a whole is a farse. If these boats bring anything to the boat and cannot release it alive, they should be able to sell it wherever they can. Herring boats aren't ground fishing so they should be able to fish in closed ground fishing areas. Is your point also that if this occured in a non ground fish closed area the event would have been perfectly OK? The other commercial fisherman can't catch and sell 10" fish anyway. They use to catch the same stuff and sell it or through it overboard. They didn't target this stuff. they don't want it. But if they do catch it let the do something usefull with it other than WASTE it.

MakoMike
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posted 11/02/2009 03:23 PM

lobstercatcher wrote:
The overall veiw of this subject is widespread and the recreational fishermen are concerned also. The fishing management effort as a whole is a farse. If these boats bring anything to the boat and cannot release it alive, they should be able to sell it wherever they can. Herring boats aren't ground fishing so they should be able to fish in closed ground fishing areas. Is your point also that if this occured in a non ground fish closed area the event would have been perfectly OK? The other commercial fisherman can't catch and sell 10" fish anyway. They use to catch the same stuff and sell it or through it overboard. They didn't target this stuff. they don't want it. But if they do catch it let the do something usefull with it other than WASTE it.

That is precisely the issue, they claim to not be catching groundfish. If they don't I have no problem with them fishing in 1A. But if they are catching groundfish then they shouldn't be allowed to fish there. They may not be "groundfishing" but they may be catching groundfish, which is what the close area is supposed to prevent. Surely you know that a "midwater" net can be towed to just skim the bottom, even though it doesn't have a weighted footrope.

====MakoMike=====

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Makomania out

lobstercatcher

Joined: 11/06/2008
Posts: 612

posted 11/02/2009 03:40 PM

I can't speek for any of the captains what they can or can't do with their nets. In the normal and typical opperation of towing nets, it is possable to catch species which are not the target of the opperation. It would be the equivalant of telling anyone/everyone on the ocean, you can't fish in the 500 sq mile area because the fluke season is closed. What if someone trolling for .... striper or fishing for black fish etc hooks one. Also you don't have to fish the bottom to catch cod or haddock. The fish follow the food which herring is. Are you saying that you never reeled in your jig from a 100 ft and then 10 ft from the boat you hook up?