Saltwater Fishing Discussion Board Including Inshore Fishing, Offshore Fishing, Saltwater Fly Fishing and Kayak Fishing

Seizing on the chilling fact that drowning happens faster in cold water, New York has become the first state to require life jackets on everyone in all small boats during the coldest half of the year.

More boating accidents happen in the summer, when more people are out on the water, but the fatality rate rises in the colder months, from 8 percent nationally in July to 25 percent in November last year. Officials say the scarcity of other boaters to help with rescues also increases the risk of death.

"The cold water carries greater risks than summertime warm weather boating," state parks department spokesman Dan Keefe said. "You lose your ability to swim. Even strong swimmers can succumb to the cold water because their arms and legs get numb and useless."

Falling into cold water can trigger shock, as well as gasping, causing the unexpected swimmer to suddenly inhale water. Immersion in water colder than 40 degrees Fahrenheit can lead to hypothermia and passing out within 15 minutes.

Starting Nov. 1, kayakers, canoeists and those aboard all other boats under 21 feet must wear Coast Guard-approved personal flotation devices while on New York's coastal waters, lakes, rivers and other waterways. The rule will remain in effect through May 1. Violators face fines ranging from $25 to $100.

Similar seasonal requirements for wearing personal flotation devices apply to canoes and kayaks in Massachusetts and to all manually propelled vessels, including rowboats, in Connecticut.

The New York law is broader, affecting all pleasure craft, including small sailboats and motorboats, according to the state Department of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.

The department, which oversees marine law enforcement in New York, sought the law. The state Legislature passed the bill, with boating industry backing, in the spring. Gov. David Paterson signed it this summer.

"It's perhaps the No. 1 best thing you can do to protect yourself on the water, wearing a life jacket," said Matthew Long, of the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators.

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togmaster
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posted 10/17/2009 08:00 PM

Right from the NY law book

The "Life Jacket Wear" bills (A6784 and S3024)) which requires the wearing of life jackets
on all vessels under 21 feet from November 1 to May 1 have passed both Houses of the
New York Legislature. It is anticipated that the Governor will sign the bill into law since
this was an executive initiative. If so, it will become the first of its kind in the nation. This
was a New York Office of Parks, Recreation, and Historic Preservation bill.
Contact: Brian Kempf (BLA), 518-474-0445; brian.kempf@oprhp.state.ny.us

I also herd about a throw ring is a must not on vessels under 26 ft as well not sure but if you have info please post it here for us

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This post edited by togmaster 08:09 PM 10/17/2009

JohnnyKapalua

Joined: 09/14/2004
Posts: 518

posted 10/17/2009 09:23 PM

This is the NYS law.

EXISTING LAW :
Navigation Law 40 requires certain vessels to maintain PDFs, and
mandates that they be worn in certain circumstances. It does not,
however, require passengers of pleasure vessels, over the age of
eleven, to wear a PFD when the vessel is underway. In addition, the
subdivision heading for Navigation Law 40(1) contains a
typographical error.
--------------------------------------------------------------

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, REPRESENTED IN SENATE AND ASSEMBLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

Section 1. The subdivision heading of subdivision 1 of section 40 of the navigation law, as amended by chapter 74 of the laws of 1998, is amended to read as follows:

[personal] PERSONAL flotation devices.

S 2. Subdivision 1 of section 40 of the navigation law is amended by adding a new paragraph (e) to read as follows:

(E) NO OWNER OR OPERATOR OF A PLEASURE VESSEL LESS THAN TWENTY-ONE FEET, INCLUDING ROWBOATS, CANOES, AND KAYAKS SHALL PERMIT ITS OPERATION, BETWEEN NOVEMBER FIRST AND MAY FIRST, UNLESS EACH PERSON ON BOARD SUCH VESSEL IS WEARING A SECURELY FASTENED UNITED STATES COAST GUARD APPROVED WEARABLE PERSONAL FLOTATION DEVICE OF AN APPROPRIATE SIZE WHEN SUCH VESSEL IS UNDERWAY.
S 3. This act shall take effect on the first of November next succeed-
ing the date on which it shall have become a law.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

And I'm fairly sure that when a vessel with engines off and not anchored, it's considered under way. Drifting for bass or anything else would require vests on.

JohnnyKapalua

Joined: 09/14/2004
Posts: 518

posted 10/17/2009 09:32 PM

Is this accurate about PFDs

This is a repeat from another thread I posted. Maybe I could get an answer here.

There doesn't seem to be a minimum on the class of the PFD (ie. Typr V, IV, III) that is required. Other than a wearable Coast Guard approved PFD.

If you go with an inflatable I'm under the impression that they each have an expiration date on them like a flare. I suspect when using this type you'd have to buy new inflators to update the legality of that PFD.

Does this sound accurate as far as the inflatable PFD's?? Seems cheaper in the long run to buy a good fishing vest type PFD that doesn't need inflation. Or one of those "Bomber" jackets that also serves to reduce/avoid hypothermia.

This post edited by JohnnyKapalua 09:33 PM 10/17/2009

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posted 10/17/2009 09:41 PM

Johnny thanks for the info
I would think a Pdf of approved status would be the only one to use as per this on the coast guard site

APPROVAL GUIDANCE FOR RECREATIONAL PFDs / LIFEJACKETS:

APPROVAL CATEGORIES: 160.047, 160.052, 160.060, 160.064, 160.076, 160.077

APPROVAL GUIDANCE & INFORMATION: All PFDs are approved by the Coast Guard, but some require little or no direct USCG review prior to approval. All PFDs must be tested by the USCG’s Recognized Laboratory, which is Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. The Coast Guard will do a pre-approval review of any new concept prior to submitting it for testing to the Recognized Laboratory. (See discussion in “Note” below) Unless it is a new concept, most recreational PFDs may be submitted directly to the laboratory for approval.

U.S. Coast Guard approval of PFDs manufactured in accordance with any one of the PFD specification subparts must be handled through a Recognized Laboratory. Each of these specification subparts listed below briefly describes the steps involved in obtaining Coast Guard approval. The corresponding UL standard for each PFD type contains detailed test procedures to be employed to determine compliance with the regulation requirements.

Pre-approval Review: A proposed PFD design (drawing, pictures, sample, etc.) may be sent to the Coast Guard for review of its suitability for approval prior to the PFD being submitted to the laboratory for testing.

Note: A positive Coast Guard evaluation is no guarantee of approval since testing cannot be performed by the Coast Guard. The purpose of the Coast Guard's preliminary review is to identify serious and obvious design problems before the manufacturer starts incurring laboratory test expenses and to determine if any special testing or coordination with the lab may be required. To increase the chances of successful and timely completion of testing at the laboratory, manufacturers should perform all required testing on their own before submitting a device for approval.

In response to the initial inquiry made by the PFD manufacturer, the recognized laboratory will determine a cost estimate for the work. Accompanying the cost estimate will be an application and additional information for the PFD manufacturer.

The manufacturer then submits samples of each model and each size to be tested to the laboratory. Where alternate constructions and/or materials are proposed to be used, samples must be the weakest possible combinations. After receipt of the samples to be tested, along with a signed application, the recognized laboratory will evaluate and test the design against the requirements in the applicable Coast Guard specification subpart and UL Standard(s). A test report and Follow-Up Inspection Procedure will be drafted by the laboratory and sent to the Commandant (G-MSE-4) for review. In most cases, the Procedure is issued to the applicant to start production at the same time it is sent to the Coast Guard. For reports requiring Coast Guard review prior to issuance, the Coast Guard will notify the laboratory whether or not U.S. Coast Guard approval will be granted. The laboratory will, in turn, notify the applicant.

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JohnnyKapalua

Joined: 09/14/2004
Posts: 518

posted 10/18/2009 11:11 AM

And I thank you right back

I just do not want to get burned on wearing one of the inflatable types that are classified as a V but functions as a III and then told it has to be classified as III or better to begin with.

I'm laughing about my recent checking on Life Preservers and the fact that most authorities consider those Orange rectangles we pay $7-$10 a piece for which we all buy to get by, to be the worst of them all.

I'm still shopping.

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posted 10/18/2009 11:35 AM

best and comfortable

Johnny they say the Sterns vest is comfortable and good flotation
Sterns Vest
If you want to spend the bucks these are great small and good flotation
Cabels gardian

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tomjg

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 2587
Location: long beach

posted 10/19/2009 12:42 PM

How long before the state makes it a law that people need to wear life vests all the time? Think of the revenue they can generate. In the end it's not about their desire to save lives- I believe it is another intrusion into people's wallets.

AMERICA- YOU'VE BEEN DUPED!!

FischerMan21
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posted 10/19/2009 02:22 PM

Or its simply a cost cutting factor, so when your wife (not your wife per say, but the generic your) decides she wants a body to burry, the state doesn’t need to spend tons of money on a search and recovery effort. Without a PFD it would take much longer to find someone and that’s if they were able to find them.

tomjg

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 2587
Location: long beach

posted 10/19/2009 03:43 PM

FischerMan21 wrote:
Or its simply a cost cutting factor, so when your wife (not your wife per say, but the generic your) decides she wants a body to burry, the state doesn’t need to spend tons of money on a search and recovery effort. Without a PFD it would take much longer to find someone and that’s if they were able to find them.

I'm willing to bet WHEN the state goes to mandatory wearing of life vests ALL THE TIME. They will generate 100 times more money in fines than they have have spent, in any given year, trying to find (unfortunately) bodies.
I happen to think it is a big first step to mandatory life vests at all times.
I'm not ok with having to wear a life jacket everytime I'm on a boat and I'm not happy to have the state tell me I have to wear one.
I put my boat in on a lake in April. I have been driving a boat on the lake since I was a little boy. Now , by law, I have to wear a life vest this April? Sorry- not gonna do it and not gonna pay the fine when I get caught. They can throw me in jail. Or if I fall out of my boat and forget how to swim the 20 feet to shore ( I'm normally close to shore , that's where the fish are), and I drown, leave my body to feed the turtles.
All kidding aside- I think it's a bad law and a little too intrusive.

AMERICA- YOU'VE BEEN DUPED!!

FischerMan21
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posted 10/19/2009 03:47 PM

how is it all that much different then the state requering you to wear a seat belt in a car?

tomjg

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 2587
Location: long beach

posted 10/19/2009 04:00 PM

FischerMan21 wrote:
how is it all that much different then the state requering you to wear a seat belt in a car?

I have to wear a life jacket- A seat belt is part of the car. I have to either go out and buy life jackets or wear the little orange ones I bought for my boats 10 years ago when floatation cushions no longer met the standard.
I'm guessing you are ok with this law - I'm not. And WHEN the state tells everyone they have to wear a vest all the time ( and keep in mind- if their intention is to save lives - there are a hell of a lot more people on the water in June , July, August and September) , then you'll have to put one on in 90 degree weather. But hey- it's for your own good , the State knows best.Not to mention those search and rescue missions don't get cheaper in July.

This is another example of the state over stepping their bounds- IMHO.
I wasn't a big fan of the seat belt law by the way and have been predicting this new "wear a life vest" law since they made it mandatory to have life vests for everyone in a boat , instead of life cushions.
1st step: make a boat have life jackets for everyone on board: done
2nd step : make every one wear life jackets for half the year: done:
next step: make every one wear life jackets at all times: coming soon

AMERICA- YOU'VE BEEN DUPED!!

tomjg

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 2587
Location: long beach

posted 10/19/2009 04:01 PM

FischerMan21 wrote:
how is it all that much different then the state requering you to wear a seat belt in a car?

Next step the state will be telling us we have to wear helmets in cars surprise

Wait a minute- I don't want them to get any ideas Finger

AMERICA- YOU'VE BEEN DUPED!!

Capt. Marc

Joined: 08/12/2000
Posts: 1616
Location: East of the Isles of Shoals

posted 10/19/2009 10:03 PM

"Falling into cold water can trigger shock, as well as gasping, causing the unexpected swimmer to suddenly inhale water. Immersion in water colder than 40 degrees Fahrenheit can lead to hypothermia and passing out within 15 minutes."

How about safe operation and stay in the boat? This is one of the most intrusive things I have ever heard of. So unless the USCG sees you fall overboard and comes to your aid in 15 mins, what's the point other then to easily find the body.

Remember this does not apply to federal waters so when you are 3.1 miles out your all set.

This is a after the fact burden when the real problem is lack of education and safe operation to stay in the boat.

Besides "underway" can mean drifting. Drifting is "underway but not making way" if I remember my rules.

So Chief, I see ya got your rubbers.

FischerMan21
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posted 10/20/2009 09:32 AM

tomjg wrote:
FischerMan21 wrote:
how is it all that much different then the state requering you to wear a seat belt in a car?

I have to wear a life jacket- A seat belt is part of the car. I have to either go out and buy life jackets or wear the little orange ones I bought for my boats 10 years ago when floatation cushions no longer met the standard.
I'm guessing you are ok with this law - I'm not. And WHEN the state tells everyone they have to wear a vest all the time ( and keep in mind- if their intention is to save lives - there are a hell of a lot more people on the water in June , July, August and September) , then you'll have to put one on in 90 degree weather. But hey- it's for your own good , the State knows best.Not to mention those search and rescue missions don't get cheaper in July.

This is another example of the state over stepping their bounds- IMHO.
I wasn't a big fan of the seat belt law by the way and have been predicting this new "wear a life vest" law since they made it mandatory to have life vests for everyone in a boat , instead of life cushions.
1st step: make a boat have life jackets for everyone on board: done
2nd step : make every one wear life jackets for half the year: done:
next step: make every one wear life jackets at all times: coming soon

Theres a lot more people out there and the water temp is a lot warmer. Since theres a lot more people it would also stand to reason that there would be many more good Samaritans around to help if they saw something happen to you, its kind of the boating code I was always brought up with if you see someone in trouble you do anything you can to help. But its more a factor of time you will last much longer in 60 degree water then in 40 degree water. And as for search and recover being cheaper in the summer that is true but they sure are a lot easier and quicker, even with a dry suite on your dive time become much shorter and the work you do is not nearly as effective in colder water. I don’t see this as a huge revenue grab like many seem to think. Lets face it the amount of boaters out on boats 21’ or smaller between 11/1 and 5/1 is not a super high number.