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NEW YORK STATE IS SUEING FOR FAIR AND EVEN FLUKE REGS IN 2009!

The State of New York, through Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, is suing the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) on behalf of the recreational fisherman of New York, to change the way fluke are managed on the East Coast. However, the Attorney General has left the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) out of the lawsuit. With out including ASMFC, if the State is successful in the suit, nothing may change, because while the NMFS manages fluke in Federal waters, the ASMFC decides how to manage fluke in state waters, and is the agency responsible for choosing the State-by-State method of management each year. Their methodology has been based on faulty data, which has been impacting New York anglers unfairly for over a decade. United Boatmen of New York (UBNY), New York Fishing Tackle Trade Association (NYFTTA), and the Fisheries Conservation Association (FCA) have intervened in the lawsuit to include the ASMFC in any decision. This has, and will, cost a lot of money, and our funds are rapidly being depleted.

WE NEED YOUR HELP

If we do not win this lawsuit, New York’s recreational angling community will have a very short season for fluke in 2009, despite the very healthy state of the fishery. A minimum size greater than last year’s 20-1/2-inch limit, a bag limit less than last year’s 4-fish limit, and a four to six week open season are a real possibility. We have been reported to have overharvested fluke by 66 percent in 2008, which would require New York to reduce our 2009 quota by 35 percent or more in 2009. We are asking all fishermen to help us salvage the 2009 fluke season for all recreational anglers. Please consider sending a donation, however large or small, to help support this lawsuit. The industry cannot finish this fight without the help of individuals, fishing clubs and other fishing organizations. Join the fight so that we can fish for fluke in 2009!

Send your donation to: NYFTTA P.O. Box 3210, Patchogue, NY 11772. Please make checks out to NYFTTA.

President, RAIBS
Recreational Anglers against Internet BS

loligo

Joined: 02/20/2006
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posted 11/27/2008 01:43 AM

Good luck....your own DEC will probably punish you for trying if you lose, or make sure you do.

First you will need to prove you aren't catching as much as they say.

A million dollars for a scallop permit? C'mon...really?
Pew....Force feeding America the best science fiction money can buy

steamboat1

Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 3653

posted 11/27/2008 02:15 AM

Kinda Remember This Before......

What Was The Outcome The 1st Time?

MakoMike
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posted 11/27/2008 08:49 AM

steamboat1 wrote:
What Was The Outcome The 1st Time?

Same suit.

====MakoMike=====

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Makomania out

loligo

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posted 11/27/2008 08:55 AM

I think this whole thing is silly unless you first have the science to back it up.....

A million dollars for a scallop permit? C'mon...really?
Pew....Force feeding America the best science fiction money can buy

chawk

Joined: 04/15/2005
Posts: 476
Location: Huntington

posted 11/27/2008 08:39 PM

TIME OUT!

I won't get into the "we OVERFISHED what???!!" With a 60 to 70 percent drop in participation, how did this occur? Answer, it did not. Now without getting crazy, a point of info.... the same thing took place in Florida last year with the state shutting down Grouper fishing due to overfishing according to the current regs that called for a reduction ( I don't remember the percentage) that supposedly was not achieved. The recreationals with the help of the fishing trades people went to the state with evidence (I don't recall what specifically they offered) to show that due the price of fuel, there was a 45 percent reduction in participation. Therefore there had to be the 15 or 20 percent reduction in mortality the state needed. The state concurred and reopened the grouper season! The details I don't recall exactly, but you get the gist. I believe the same thing could work here ( if for no other reason then their "science" and "info" is ludicris now!! (overfished my ass! Eaton's triangle on Labor Day had 10 boats instead of the normal 60 to 70) Sorry, I digress! I think I will do some more reading to find out how the Florida thing went down to get some backround info. Will report back. Bill

Huntington Angler's Club

sealaw

Joined: 04/23/2004
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posted 11/28/2008 06:42 AM

loligo wrote:
I think this whole thing is silly unless you first have the science to back it up.....

That's the difference here, loligo. We DO have the science to back us up. In 2006 the National Academy of Science (commissioned by NMFS) did an independent study of the MRFSS system and determined, among other things, that MRFSS data are not precise enough to manage at the state level. The state-by-state quotas for fluke were determined using MRFSS data from 1998. Thus, the "best available science" in the form of the 2006 NAS report now supports coastwide management rather than state-by-state. Despite this info, the NMFS made a political decision (rather than a scientifically supported one) to manage fluke using "conservation equivalency" (state-by-state)AGAIN this year (2008 )...while in the process, discriminating against N.Y. anglers and businesses.

Still think it's silly? Confused

Illegal Immigration Is Destroying America - Look What It Did To The White House

NATIONAL MARINE FISHERIES SERVICE - Destroying Fishermen and Their Communities Since 1976

This post edited by sealaw 06:43 AM 11/28/2008

MakoMike
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posted 11/28/2008 03:08 PM

Don't forget that what New Yorkers might consider "fair and equitable" might well be viewed as "unfair and inequitable" by other states, e.g. North Carolina, where a 19 inch fluke is a real trophy. That is, in essence, the problem with coastwide management, the fish are not evenly distributed all along the coast.

====MakoMike=====

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Makomania out

MakoMike
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posted 11/28/2008 03:32 PM

sealaw wrote:
loligo wrote:
I think this whole thing is silly unless you first have the science to back it up.....

That's the difference here, loligo. We DO have the science to back us up. In 2006 the National Academy of Science (commissioned by NMFS) did an independent study of the MRFSS system and determined, among other things, that MRFSS data are not precise enough to manage at the state level. The state-by-state quotas for fluke were determined using MRFSS data from 1998. Thus, the "best available science" in the form of the 2006 NAS report now supports coastwide management rather than state-by-state. Despite this info, the NMFS made a political decision (rather than a scientifically supported one) to manage fluke using "conservation equivalency" (state-by-state)AGAIN this year (2008 )...while in the process, discriminating against N.Y. anglers and businesses.

Still think it's silly?

Phil,
I think you have a good point there. But why are you dragging the ASMFC into it, they don't make the decision as to whether coastwide or conservation equivalancy is used?

====MakoMike=====

Click here for The Makomania Sportfishing website

Makomania out

loligo

Joined: 02/20/2006
Posts: 2663
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posted 11/28/2008 04:10 PM

sealaw wrote:

That's the difference here, loligo. We DO have the science to back us up. In 2006 the National Academy of Science (commissioned by NMFS) did an independent study of the MRFSS system and determined, among other things, that MRFSS data are not precise enough to manage at the state level.....

Still think it's silly?

Yep, sure do. Because as a citizen of another state, who hasn't been accused of or even suspected of exceeding it's allocation, I'd be inclined to sue NY if any new rules took away from what we presently enjoy.

I am in no way in favor of coastwide regs. I think NY's problems should remain NY's problems.

A million dollars for a scallop permit? C'mon...really?
Pew....Force feeding America the best science fiction money can buy

guest

Joined: 11/16/2006
Posts: 1043

posted 11/28/2008 05:18 PM

I just don't understand... what law did the fed goverment violate? how can they be held accountible for how states themselves divy up the quota? The feds do have a coast wide limit, it just the states have a different one based on landing

ASMFC could have based the current shares on number of popluation size, mean winter temp...anything. They aren't held to the same standards that NMFS is. Heck, they could vote next week that NY share is half and Ny's share would be just that....

CaptPaul
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posted 11/28/2008 05:40 PM

loligo wrote:
Yep, sure do. Because as a citizen of another state, who hasn't been accused of or even suspected of exceeding it's allocation, I'd be inclined to sue NY if any new rules took away from what we presently enjoy.

I am in no way in favor of coastwide regs. I think NY's problems should remain NY's problems.

Look at every other states rec landings for fluke this year, except NC, Va., and De.

As for suing NY, I think you'd have to sue the feds or ASFMC if this suit is won. But whomever you sue, you better start gathering the cashish now.

Paul

guest

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posted 11/28/2008 05:45 PM

CaptPaul wrote:
As for suing NY, I think you'd have to sue the feds or ASFMC if this suit is won. But whomever you sue, you better start gathering the cashish now.

Paul

how so you sue a compact of states? wouldn't you have to sue the states individualy

CaptPaul
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posted 11/28/2008 06:01 PM

Could be. No need for me to figure it out, though.

loligo

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posted 11/29/2008 06:59 AM

CaptPaul wrote:

As for suing NY, I think you'd have to sue the feds or ASFMC if this suit is won. But whomever you sue, you better start gathering the cashish now.

Paul

I don't really care Paul....FWIW you cannot sue the ASMFC, it's written in their charter or something, MA tried and the court wouldn't hear the case.

A million dollars for a scallop permit? C'mon...really?
Pew....Force feeding America the best science fiction money can buy

This post edited by loligo 07:01 AM 11/29/2008